[2009-08-20 09:29:34] hehehe :) [2009-08-20 09:29:38] hey Ada ;) [2009-08-20 09:29:39] urbansquall: I am always working on something.......it's just that as I have a lot of other thinsg to deal with too my (and heathers) games tend to take a lot longer [2009-08-20 09:29:42] We got started without you [2009-08-20 09:29:47] (it's Mat's fault.. he forced us) [2009-08-20 09:29:50] Hi Ada [2009-08-20 09:29:53] Hi everyone! [2009-08-20 09:29:58] ;) Not really. [2009-08-20 09:30:24] Hi Ada :) Hi everyone [2009-08-20 09:30:25] Mat: What's your hiring process? How do you vet new employees? [2009-08-20 09:30:27] Mat, What made you guys choose mochicoins over gamersafe? [2009-08-20 09:30:31] hi Ada [2009-08-20 09:30:51] Hi Ada.....there seemed to be a confusion over the time......I didn't see the harm is starting early and just running longer...hope you don't mind :) [2009-08-20 09:31:40] Nitrome_Mat: Sure, works for me. I don't mind if you don't mind! [2009-08-20 09:31:46] urbansquall: send in a CV and great examples....if your good enough and we have a possition we will hire you :) [2009-08-20 09:32:02] I'm actually asking as a fellow employer ;) [2009-08-20 09:32:18] I'm curious if you have any processes to ease that integration [2009-08-20 09:32:24] Mat: You're in the UK right? [2009-08-20 09:32:27] the only one that seems to work for me is trial by fire [2009-08-20 09:32:50] FGL_Merlin : to be honest I hadn't heard of the Gamersafe option until after we started developing for the coins so it never really got considered - sorry [2009-08-20 09:33:05] That's alright, just interested :) [2009-08-20 09:33:16] TheCC_Dave : yep London [2009-08-20 09:33:47] We're in the process of moving to the US (SF) any plans to move Nitrome? [2009-08-20 09:34:25] @Nitrome_Mat: Do you plan on doing anything new and exciting with your website in the future? [2009-08-20 09:35:04] TheCC_Dave: I love SanFrancisco but I don't think we have any reason to move [2009-08-20 09:35:12] Less drizzle :) [2009-08-20 09:35:35] why are you moving, CC_Dave? [2009-08-20 09:35:52] Because Ada is so pretty, I bet. [2009-08-20 09:36:13] Got it in one! [2009-08-20 09:36:48] HardCircle_Bret: we are always thinking of adding new things....we actually did a poll recently to get an idea of what people would most like to see us do....we would like to do something a little different to what people expect though if possible as I don't think following trends is always a great idea [2009-08-20 09:37:41] Nitrome_Mat: Any chance you'd be willing to share some rough CPM numbers on the mochicoins stuff in Twin Shot 2? [2009-08-20 09:38:00] I assume it's outperforming ad revenue, I'm just curious by how much. ;) [2009-08-20 09:38:10] Mat, how come you used MochiCoins for Twinshot 2 but not for Rockity? [2009-08-20 09:38:36] Urbansquall: actually I already put some figures on the forum thred about this chat :) [2009-08-20 09:38:45] curses.. sorry about that. :) [2009-08-20 09:39:03] (doing my homework) [2009-08-20 09:39:10] Here they are: [2009-08-20 09:39:12] CPM can be misleading as some territories are going to bring the overall CPM down quite a bit. I think Mochi Coins are currently very English language focused and for those territories we have been getting around a $4.88 CPM which I think is good for our first attempt with a new system. To give contrast the Asian market has a $0.0026 CPM which obviously brings the average way down. When we first launched with the game only [2009-08-20 09:39:20] Hey Merlin [2009-08-20 09:39:21] @Nitrome_Mat: Could you share some of the knowledge gathered from your pole? What do the players really want? [2009-08-20 09:39:31] Raitendo: We don't plan to use them for every game but we will be using them in others and we have one in the works at the moment that will use them :) [2009-08-20 09:40:13] Nitrome_Mat: How long does it take you to make a game? Do you set a schedule for a project when it starts, and if so, do you often run over/under schedule? [2009-08-20 09:40:48] HardCircle_Bret: it seems a lot of our users want Level Editors and Multiplayer......In general though players are greedy and want everything you will give them :) [2009-08-20 09:41:36] Nitorme_Mat: how will you use MochiCoins in your next game? level expansion pack, or are you gonna try something else? [2009-08-20 09:41:43] Waynemarsh: We originally tired to keep it to 4 weeks but now it is usually about 5-6 weeks per game with a team of two [2009-08-20 09:42:40] mat: how do you decide which games to use with mochicoins and which games to leave alone? [2009-08-20 09:42:47] @Nitrome_Mat: Did you get any backlash from your fans in regardes to Mochicoins, and or how does it affect your future titles? [2009-08-20 09:43:52] Raitendo: good question......I think although the level pack worked quite well in retrospect I don't think it was the best thing we could offer. In future I think we would likely keep levels free and concentrate on things that add to the experience like weapons, new modes and cheats [2009-08-20 09:44:12] Nitrome_Mat: What have you found to be the most productive workflow? If you could split it up into stages of how a game gets created at nitrome that would be nice. =) [2009-08-20 09:44:43] Seconded. :) [2009-08-20 09:45:10] prototype -> Concept/Design -> build it -> alpha -> beta -> release ... thats how I see it :) [2009-08-20 09:45:31] a week or so for each stage :) [2009-08-20 09:45:36] hi.. [2009-08-20 09:45:56] DiscipleOfFred: We wouldn't put coins in any of the games we have sponsored.......not uless they requested it anyway. Other than that we judge how much we think we can add to the game through extras as I think some concepts are more suited than others [2009-08-20 09:46:11] When do you guys usually tackle level building? [2009-08-20 09:46:16] At what point in the process? [2009-08-20 09:46:22] and how, it's such a different skill to actually making a game [2009-08-20 09:46:49] Amen. [2009-08-20 09:47:01] making a character move, jump and look pretty is nothing like making a level that's good [2009-08-20 09:47:12] level design is bloody fun [2009-08-20 09:47:30] one of my favorite classes :) [2009-08-20 09:47:30] not if your games have 50 levels ;) [2009-08-20 09:47:34] Oknavi: week 1 mock up shot and game prototype, week 2 fully fleshed out mechanic with main graphics, week 3 and 4 add extras, weeks 5 build levels, week 6 test and fix things [2009-08-20 09:47:41] you get somewhere around level 25 and you start hating life [2009-08-20 09:47:58] but if you have team [2009-08-20 09:48:00] you break it up [2009-08-20 09:48:13] We work in teams of two usually [2009-08-20 09:48:28] artist and coder split up the level design todos? [2009-08-20 09:48:48] hey flipline ;) [2009-08-20 09:48:58] hey! [2009-08-20 09:49:21] Urbansquall: yes the levels get done between the artist and coder......if one is lagging behind the other will make more levels [2009-08-20 09:49:25] Mat: Where did the majority of the 10m plays of TS2 come from? [2009-08-20 09:49:43] Thanks Mat. Awesome. :) [2009-08-20 09:49:50] how much do you guys make a year salary wise? [2009-08-20 09:49:52] Nitrome_Mat: what is the average size of a nitrome game does file size ever comeinto play when making a game? [2009-08-20 09:50:37] TheCC_Dave: mainly our site, newgrounds......some big sites in China made up quite a lot too [2009-08-20 09:50:39] mat - are you guys going to port to other mediums like xbox live marketplace and iphone? [2009-08-20 09:50:58] Nitrome_Mat: How many hours a day do you work to get a good chunk of the game done in those 3-5 weeks? [2009-08-20 09:51:12] HardCircle_Bret: Enough to keep making more game :) [2009-08-20 09:51:44] Mat: Cool, when was it launched? NG only showing 100k plays? was there an earlier version without MochiCoins? [2009-08-20 09:51:51] BrightWave: we try to keep under 2 meg....usually most of that is the music [2009-08-20 09:52:12] hey look its critters [2009-08-20 09:52:15] * TacticalPenguin waves [2009-08-20 09:52:50] Hey TP [2009-08-20 09:52:54] @Nitrome_Mat: lol, I was curious. I wanted to touch on something you mentioned in the FGL chat. When you started out you did lots of contract work before just focusing on nitrome games. What type of contract work did you take on? and how did you find a balance between contract work and making your own games?? I ask because this is the stage my own company is starting to enter. [2009-08-20 09:53:13] Nitrome_Mat: Did you fall into a position where you are mostly ad revenue driven or was that more a part of the overall plan? [2009-08-20 09:53:16] TheCC_Dave: our site had a lot and it was only on there for the first week.....after that it gets quite split between lots of little sites. Newgrounds stood out against most.....FreeOnline games were quite good for it too [2009-08-20 09:53:24] Mat: Did adding the free skins in TwinShot 2 help drive more players towards logging in with Mochi accounts, and/or purchasing with coins? [2009-08-20 09:54:00] Urbansquall: We never had any plans to run ads when we first set out so yes we fell into that [2009-08-20 09:54:34] For Nitrome_Mat: Are you impressed enough with the results of TS2, that you plan to use Mochi Coins for most of your new games? [2009-08-20 09:54:52] Nitrome_Mat: have you had and project that could not be done due to limitations of flash or poor performance speed wise. has any projects had to be scaled back due to limitations? [2009-08-20 09:55:01] Flipline: yes it had quite a big impact actually and that is something I would recomend doing.......once people are logged in they are more likely to buy things we find [2009-08-20 09:55:38] ArcadeJunky: I think we will be using them in most games that we don't have sponsored but not the sponsored ones [2009-08-20 09:55:47] testing [2009-08-20 09:55:49] Thanks! [2009-08-20 09:56:18] how important is sponsorship to you these days [2009-08-20 09:56:25] you said in fgl's chat that most of your revenue comes from ads [2009-08-20 09:56:25] mike here [2009-08-20 09:56:26] @Nitrome_mat: with 10 million plays, how many of those plays turned into buys/mochicoin accounts? [2009-08-20 09:56:31] and now you're supplementing that with microtx too [2009-08-20 09:56:39] is sponsorship still a priority? [2009-08-20 09:56:43] Nitrome_Mat: How many hours a day do you work to get a good chunk of the game done in those 3-5 weeks? [2009-08-20 09:56:49] BrightWave: not really......most ideas you just scale the concept to work with what you have to work with [2009-08-20 09:57:18] Mat has twin shot 2 become your most profitable game? And are Mochi coins the most profitable aspect? [2009-08-20 09:57:20] mochi_user______ you can type /nick someOtherNick to change your name [2009-08-20 09:57:33] =-= mochi_user______ is now known as mike [2009-08-20 09:57:37] like that [2009-08-20 09:57:40] nick LongAnimals [2009-08-20 09:57:45] @Oknavi: I would assume 8-10 hour work days, 5 days a week... like any regular job... then there could be some crunch time hours in there also on week 5-6. [2009-08-20 09:57:47] with a / [2009-08-20 09:57:49] mochi_user__ you need a / in front [2009-08-20 09:57:51] =-= mochi_user__ is now known as LongAnimals [2009-08-20 09:58:02] =-= mike is now known as Guest81511 [2009-08-20 09:58:08] Benologist: It used to be the most important thing to us but Ads are now more important [2009-08-20 09:58:11] wow..all the big players this is great [2009-08-20 09:58:23] do you see a day where you just don't bother with sponsorship at all anymore? [2009-08-20 09:58:38] guest81511 someone else probably has the name mike registered, look for a name that isn t registered by someone else [2009-08-20 09:59:14] \nick mike [2009-08-20 09:59:28] changing your name back to mike wont work [2009-08-20 09:59:34] because someone else has it registered and passorded [2009-08-20 09:59:35] Nitrome_Mat: I know your stats pretty intimately on our side... :) But I was curious if you tracked the traffic back to your site from Twin Shot 2. Did you receive as much traffic as you typically expect? [2009-08-20 09:59:59] HardCircle_Bret: on our site we were getting a $2.50 CPM.......since distributing it has dropped to $0.68 CPM. Mostly that is down to China though and English speaking territories make up most of the purchases [2009-08-20 10:00:09] Nitrome_Mat: how did nitrome employees learn to program? Through classes, books or just the internet? [2009-08-20 10:00:19] Nitrome? [2009-08-20 10:00:25] \nick mike950 [2009-08-20 10:00:32] forward slash [2009-08-20 10:00:53] \nick Nitrome_Sally [2009-08-20 10:00:55] hah [2009-08-20 10:01:05] Nitrome hi DanielMartin from www.mindlessstudios.com [2009-08-20 10:01:11] lol [2009-08-20 10:01:14] Ryannichols: I'm not sure what you mean....do you mean did we get the same number of plays? [2009-08-20 10:01:15] lol [2009-08-20 10:01:19] mochi_user__ type this: /nick DanielMartin [2009-08-20 10:01:28] isn't it /quit or something? [2009-08-20 10:01:32] @Nitrome_mat: Thanks. I want to know how important do you think your website is to nitromes success. [2009-08-20 10:01:45] no benologist that is /quit name to quit "name" from the chat [2009-08-20 10:01:46] Nitrome_Mat: How much of your ad revenue comes from your portal and how much from the mochi ads being hostedo n other sites? [2009-08-20 10:02:07] Nitrome_Mat: No I meant click-through traffic back to nitrome. Do you watch that sort of thing? [2009-08-20 10:02:30] HardCircle: I think it gets more and more important as time goes on......at first it was a hinderance [2009-08-20 10:02:58] @Nitrome_mat: Could you go into some details about the Hinderance??? [2009-08-20 10:03:02] Hi guys. We're thinking of trying out games without in-game ads, to see if they spread more. Have you tried that? [2009-08-20 10:03:12] when you make a game do you code it as you go along or do you write it all out in flow chart form first? [2009-08-20 10:03:26] there are big portals that won't take them with ads [2009-08-20 10:03:37] are you planning any multiplayer game?(not hot seats as usualy, using internet). [2009-08-20 10:03:49] benologist, they usually buy licenses, or we ignore them. [2009-08-20 10:04:00] Ryannichols: We have noticed a good spike in traffic since we put Twin Shot out so I think it has done well in that respect but we havn't looked into it that greatly...yet [2009-08-20 10:04:27] @nitrome mat: Whats your biggest earning game to date? [2009-08-20 10:04:43] this is very difficult to follow because its hard to tell which question is being answered [2009-08-20 10:05:00] I think it's going fine. ;) [2009-08-20 10:05:04] Nitrome Hi, have you thought about devloping your own merchandise range? [2009-08-20 10:05:15] hes answering them in order mike950 [2009-08-20 10:05:22] LongAnimals: I don't think it makes much difference having an ad. We tried games on our site with and without and it made no difference. It may differ more in distribution but we have little experience in that [2009-08-20 10:05:25] ok i'll try to follow [2009-08-20 10:05:39] thanks mat [2009-08-20 10:05:43] That means your next mike [2009-08-20 10:06:00] ok..thanks!! [2009-08-20 10:06:01] Mike950: we write it as we go [2009-08-20 10:06:11] Nitrome_Mat: Have you given any thought to rolling your own currency 'NitromeCoins' and using that on and off your site? [2009-08-20 10:06:15] am i next? [2009-08-20 10:06:35] selus is [2009-08-20 10:07:02] mochi_user: we have always intended to have a shop on our site.....we have a tab for it but so far havn't got round to it.....we will though :) [2009-08-20 10:07:14] do you think its a good idea? [2009-08-20 10:07:22] i'm wondering if a site i'm helping out should do [2009-08-20 10:07:32] if it would help push the site further [2009-08-20 10:07:52] =-= mochi_user is now known as IQGames [2009-08-20 10:08:05] probably a bad idea, most people won't give their credit cards to a site without a good reputation, which is hard to get [2009-08-20 10:08:12] surely it depends on the site, the traffic, the "brand" etc [2009-08-20 10:08:16] what if it was a competetion? [2009-08-20 10:08:26] Nitrome_Mat: So does the 8 bit game style extend into restricted color palettes that help control filesize for your games, is that how you get them to be so small with so much content? [2009-08-20 10:08:29] @Nitrome_Mat any plans for flash games on a bigger scale ? [2009-08-20 10:08:33] If you use PayPal, they don't give out their CC details [2009-08-20 10:08:41] true, that would work [2009-08-20 10:08:48] yeah i'll do that [2009-08-20 10:08:48] TheCC_Dave: I don't think it is really something we want to deal with. Also I think there is a strenght in all getting behind one coin system and making it a standard [2009-08-20 10:08:50] Thanks guys! [2009-08-20 10:08:59] Nitrome_Mat: Do you consider what college a person went to and what their major was when hiring them? Or only their portfolio and interview? [2009-08-20 10:09:07] I do agree with you there Nitrome_Mat... [2009-08-20 10:09:11] good question IQ I was wondering about that myself :) [2009-08-20 10:09:23] Nitrome Mat: your games are pretty happy go lucky...have you gotten any back lash for 'parasite' because the main character is basically a bad guy? [2009-08-20 10:09:56] +1 for iqgames' question [2009-08-20 10:10:08] Are you planning any multiplayer game(not hot seats as usualy, a real multiplayer) [2009-08-20 10:10:10] IQGames: we don't restrict colours....the pixels are mainly for style purposes but sometimes have other benifits to processing [2009-08-20 10:10:12] After you added the free skins to twinshot, was their a significant increase in purchases per thousand views? [2009-08-20 10:10:25] i have a spot in my ear -.- [2009-08-20 10:10:30] it would be nice if nitromes answers were in bold [2009-08-20 10:10:42] or all caps? [2009-08-20 10:11:09] DiscipleOfFred: I would always value Portfolio and then what the person is like above any qualifications. [2009-08-20 10:12:07] BrightWave: we did get a few complaints over Parasite but not many and in general people loved being the bad guy! [2009-08-20 10:12:12] NITROME...can you answer in ALL CAPS so i can follow it? [2009-08-20 10:12:13] Nitrome Mat - Do you have any openings for artists? *Wink Wink* [2009-08-20 10:12:19] lmfao [2009-08-20 10:12:28] Daniel.... [2009-08-20 10:12:31] sorry [2009-08-20 10:12:33] lol... [2009-08-20 10:12:39] he might of said yes [2009-08-20 10:12:39] Selus: not right at this moment but we would like to make a multiplayer game in the future [2009-08-20 10:12:45] not to you danny [2009-08-20 10:12:53] haha not to you either [2009-08-20 10:12:54] Nitrome_Mat: Is the cost benefit from including MochiCoins in this new title enough long-term to justify the added expense of integrating the new feature set in your game platform and developing the additional content? A 40% commission seems a little high compared to that of the Apple Store, etc, at around %30? [2009-08-20 10:12:54] Nitrome_Mat: thanks :) [2009-08-20 10:13:21] Mochi_user: send in a CV and portfolio [2009-08-20 10:13:26] Mat, other than tribalfusion what other onsite ad networks do you work with? [2009-08-20 10:13:31] damn it..i feel like im back in 1980..i can't follow any of this [2009-08-20 10:13:56] mike950: you couldnt follow text in 1980? :P [2009-08-20 10:13:58] What else is new, Mike? :p [2009-08-20 10:14:01] Nitrome, does it have to be a brilliant Top dollar bling bling type portfolio and CV? [2009-08-20 10:14:10] mike950: it isnt that hard to follow [2009-08-20 10:14:10] Mike, we could get someone to come round and read it out to you when you're tucked away in bed :-) [2009-08-20 10:14:10] cant he be in a different color at least? [2009-08-20 10:14:12] .... [2009-08-20 10:14:27] Nitrome_Mat: What has been your biggest regret since starting the company? [2009-08-20 10:14:35] hehe [2009-08-20 10:14:47] Mike: Maybe if you just were quiet we could hear his answers and questions, instead of you :P [2009-08-20 10:14:55] mike.. go to options and check automatically color usernames [2009-08-20 10:15:04] Mike - make sure you turn off add/leave notifications (options at top left) [2009-08-20 10:15:09] IQGames: We made a lot more off Mochicoins so I would say it is worth it. I don't think compairing to the App store is appropriate though as they are quite different markets [2009-08-20 10:15:42] \options [2009-08-20 10:16:01] mochi_user: it has to be able to demonstrate you could either code or do the art to the standard we do or why would we take someone on? [2009-08-20 10:16:03] @mike Top left, click on [IRC] [2009-08-20 10:16:25] Mike950: how do I change colour and I will [2009-08-20 10:16:32] Nitrome: iirc, you guys have several games in parallel development at any given time... how far out does you're planning extend? Do you know already what project any given programmer or artist will be working on next september, or are things kept pretty fluid? [2009-08-20 10:16:58] @Nitrome_Mat: Care to elaborate on why your website was a hinderence? [2009-08-20 10:17:45] tfernando: we only plan the game after the one we are working on about half way through each project [2009-08-20 10:17:45] mitrome@JUST USE ALL CAPS... [2009-08-20 10:17:57] hush mike [2009-08-20 10:18:03] yes, hush [2009-08-20 10:18:05] mike, no. It will be riddiculous [2009-08-20 10:18:13] quiet mike [2009-08-20 10:18:35] Nitrome Mat: Do you prototype a lot of different game ideas before you actually get a finished game? [2009-08-20 10:18:48] Nitrome: How long does a single game take to make on average? [2009-08-20 10:18:55] HardCircle_Bret: It was a hinderence to getting sponsorship early on as nobody really wanted us to have our own site......they just wanted us to develop suff for them [2009-08-20 10:18:59] <|macco> 4-6 weeks agafgames [2009-08-20 10:19:21] Nitrome Mat - What advice would you give to any small gaming site that is just starting up, sponsoring game and making thier own, and wish to have similar success as yours? [2009-08-20 10:19:28] Nitrome: Where do you get your ideas? [2009-08-20 10:19:51] @Nitrome_Mat: I really dislike how sponsors dislike linking back to your website... its almost a dick punch in a way [2009-08-20 10:19:55] Nitrome_Mat: Was there any big lessons you learned off Twin Shot in terms of mtxns? Would you take the same or different approach with your next mtxn game? Any advice to share? [2009-08-20 10:20:06] coollava: no we usually just run with an idea until it works or doesn't....there isn't really time for anything else and most things work if you push at them [2009-08-20 10:20:12] @Nitrome_Mat: As you may or may not know, a huge controversy about developers using MochiCoins in their game was spawned on account of publishers feeling that redirecting users to MochiGames would drive users away from the originating site. As both a publisher and a developer, what are your feelings on the topic? [2009-08-20 10:20:19] @ DrRobot I remember from the fgl interview they said the whole team brainstroms together [2009-08-20 10:20:32] cool, thanks disciple [2009-08-20 10:20:55] Nitrome: In general, are your sequels or your new ideas more popular [2009-08-20 10:21:08] I';d really like to know what Nitrome thinks about Mochi_user's question [2009-08-20 10:21:19] this one: What advice would you give to any small gaming site that is just starting up, sponsoring game and making thier own, and wish to have similar success as yours? [2009-08-20 10:22:10] (Thanks for the vote of confidence on a good question Dr.Robot :D) [2009-08-20 10:22:29] Nitrome Mat: how do you guys work out bug and level and difficulty progression...do you have inhouse play testers? how do you determine how your target demographic will perceive a game before release [2009-08-20 10:22:40] Ryannichols: I think one thing we probably would do with future Mochi coins games is to plan them with updates in mind......if you add updates you are going to keep people coming back to one game and up the chance of them buying things you spent time making. they are also more likely to buy things if they think there will be more to use what they have bought with in the future I think [2009-08-20 10:22:56] i think they have a script that determines what percentage of the game is pink [2009-08-20 10:23:10] nice! [2009-08-20 10:23:12] at or above 70 their users like it [2009-08-20 10:23:25] Nitrome: how has your game studio becoming a known brand effected the popularity of your content on a per game basis? [2009-08-20 10:23:30] Nitrome_Mat: What could be more profitable: Making Twin Shots 2 with MochiCoins (as it is now) or making 2 games (TS2 and 3) with 50 levels each? [2009-08-20 10:23:31] DrRobot: My advice is keep control of your games [2009-08-20 10:23:47] Nitrome-Mat can you expand on Dr.Robots answer? [2009-08-20 10:23:57] Mat, i agree with you about making MT games with updates. Do you have your own version control system? [2009-08-20 10:24:04] But still get sponsorship if possible? [2009-08-20 10:24:26] Benologist: It's not a percent pink per game.....we can make a game without pink but then we need to put more in the next one to compencate! [2009-08-20 10:24:48] THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH PINK :) [2009-08-20 10:24:51] so it's an overall average? [2009-08-20 10:24:55] lol [2009-08-20 10:25:04] Nitrome Mat: extending Brightwave's question... do you intentionally target a demographic? Or are you building what you want, based on the experience that what you build has a market? [2009-08-20 10:25:07] Nitrome_Mat: Where do you see Flash games, in general, in a year's time? [2009-08-20 10:25:09] or hearts and bows on cannons :) [2009-08-20 10:25:20] Grendelio: making the extras was not as much work as a whole other game so Twin Shot 2 was more profitable than two games [2009-08-20 10:25:41] Nitrome Mat: how do you guys work out bug and level and difficulty progression...do you have inhouse play testers? how do you determine how your target demographic will perceive the game before release [2009-08-20 10:26:07] Benologist: it is an average but it is a seasonal change [2009-08-20 10:26:15] @nitrome:would you ever port your latest game to iphone? and have you thought about how the user would interact without a keyboard and mouse? [2009-08-20 10:26:23] Nitrome_mat: Did you read about the big consoles being afraid of flash... as flash games are free, and are almost as good as 60.00 games [2009-08-20 10:26:29] xbox live marketplace too, not just iphone [2009-08-20 10:26:36] or wii [2009-08-20 10:26:38] It was an interesting article. [2009-08-20 10:26:55] I think there are definitely different markets between flash games and console games [2009-08-20 10:27:00] They should! Flash games power! :P [2009-08-20 10:27:05] Ive yet to see a flash game do everything a good console game does [2009-08-20 10:27:18] But I do spend more time playing flash games just because theyre so easy to pick up and play and theyre free [2009-08-20 10:27:20] i think the nes and gameboy are the consoles most threatened by flash games [2009-08-20 10:27:24] tfernando: we don't target a demographic but we try not to make our games as open to all gamers as possible...so no blood or rude stuff! [2009-08-20 10:27:30] Nitrome: Could you reveal some stats about your mochicoins implementation in Twin Shot 2, like how many purchases you've gotten, ecpm, etc? if you could, that is. [2009-08-20 10:27:52] drroot he said its 68 cents now [2009-08-20 10:27:56] oh [2009-08-20 10:28:02] $2.50 when it was on just his site [2009-08-20 10:28:09] nice [2009-08-20 10:28:10] and then 68 cents after distribution [2009-08-20 10:28:22] Nitrome_Mat: My point is that you could have used the same engine/artwork, making a sequel (TS3) with the 50 extra levels and selling it as a "new" game (not an entire new game). Could that give more profit than a single game with mochicoins? [2009-08-20 10:28:37] HandCircle_Bret : Do you have a link to that article? [2009-08-20 10:28:42] mike950: we would not port a game but we would make new versions of a game on different formats or whole new games......who wants a direct port of a free flash game? [2009-08-20 10:28:50] DiscipleOfFred's question x2 [2009-08-20 10:28:54] loking fo rit [2009-08-20 10:28:57] it seems to work for shift, bloons etc? [2009-08-20 10:29:03] and your games are somewhat nicer than those [2009-08-20 10:29:11] Grendelio: ppl would blame that [2009-08-20 10:29:22] Those games get new levels though, and are not complete ports, more of sequels [2009-08-20 10:29:39] Dr Robot: I did cover that [2009-08-20 10:29:59] I came in late, and didn't see it [2009-08-20 10:30:17] Selus: People keeps playing Bloons 27 and Shift 8... [2009-08-20 10:30:24] nitrome: That .68 ecpm, is that for all the 10 million plays the game got? [2009-08-20 10:30:36] Grendelio: no I think one game with coins that is really well made will make more than two sequels [2009-08-20 10:30:58] Nitrome_Mat: Thanks. Good to know! [2009-08-20 10:31:00] Nitrome_Mat: how do you guys work out bug and level and difficulty progression...do you have inhouse play testers? how do you determine how your target demographic will perceive the game before release....sorry this is the third post you must have missed it the 1st two times [2009-08-20 10:31:20] Is this entire convo going to be posted somewhere online? [2009-08-20 10:31:29] Either that or he doesn't feel like answering it... [2009-08-20 10:31:29] Benologist: true......we won't be doing that though [2009-08-20 10:31:31] drrobot this will be logged [2009-08-20 10:31:39] oh, cool. thanks. [2009-08-20 10:31:49] DrRobot: yes, we'll post a cleaned up version afterward. [2009-08-20 10:32:06] Good. Thanks! [2009-08-20 10:32:14] @Mat: What are your favorite console games? I mean the old school 2D games not the 3D bullshit...something like Parodius, Mario, Sonic etc...?!? [2009-08-20 10:32:35] Grendelio: i was trying to say what beno said. [2009-08-20 10:32:57] hey no cussin..ada's here :) [2009-08-20 10:32:59] BrightWave: we test each others games and get friends to but that is mainly to weed out bugs. [2009-08-20 10:33:04] Mat, you answered above about keeping control of your own games, can you elaborate? [2009-08-20 10:34:33] Mat, in general, are your sequels, or your new game/new concepts more popular [2009-08-20 10:34:42] frozen? [2009-08-20 10:35:05] Sw00p, mario, sonic, street fighter, micromachines, worms, monkey island........too many to mention! [2009-08-20 10:36:08] @Nitrome_mat: Any chance I could get you on my msn and or keep in contact with you via emails? [2009-08-20 10:37:04] If anyone wants to keep in contact with me, i'm a puzzle game artist, add me on msn or email me - danielmartin202@hotmail.com . [2009-08-20 10:37:11] thanks adding you now daniel [2009-08-20 10:37:18] Daniel you make shapes. [2009-08-20 10:37:27] Ianstokes: It is important not to give too much power to a sponsor......keep your i.p. and keep as much control as you can. Having a large cataloge of games you can do anything with can become really usefull making money later on [2009-08-20 10:37:49] mat have you thought about spinning some of your successful titles out in different directions ala bloons td? [2009-08-20 10:37:50] tx [2009-08-20 10:38:35] HardCircle: I don't give out my MSN lighlty any more....too many bad experiences but if you or anyone wants to drop me an email thats fine...mat@nitrome.com [2009-08-20 10:39:21] nitrome@im sure you have a list of future games you're going to work on..do you have a plan on how to order that list? and do you bump it with great ideas that come to you? [2009-08-20 10:39:23] @Nitroem_Mat: Thanks! Any chance you coming to Montreal for the game summit? [2009-08-20 10:40:03] Benologist: we did one spin off with Frost Bite that become Thin Ice. In general we let the game dictate an apropriate theme so we will use a world we already have if we think it is well suited [2009-08-20 10:41:20] Nitrome_Mat: How did you learn to program flash games? [2009-08-20 10:41:27] Mike: we have a list of ideas that gets topped up by everyone at Nitrome and people pick from that when they need to decide on a new game [2009-08-20 10:41:29] @Nitrome_Mat: How important do you think establishing partnerships is? [2009-08-20 10:41:38] Mat, whats your opinion of the publisher/developer relationship in general, and if logic points to the developer just making their own portal..like you eventually did [2009-08-20 10:41:44] How many people work at nitrome? [2009-08-20 10:42:12] Nitrom_Mat, you have created a lot of different characters, but you aren't really using one as a mascot, are you? Nitrome doesn't really have a "Mario" character. Is this on purpose? [2009-08-20 10:42:38] DiscipleOfFred: I'm not much of a coder myself although I know a bit I'm mainly an artist. The others are all self taught or picked it up on Programming courses [2009-08-20 10:44:19] nitrome@art is a mystery to me..coding isn't..how do you make artwork? do you see the images in your head and somehow its just a natural you can translate that to the computer? [2009-08-20 10:44:28] @Nitrome_Mat: About how many collective man-hours on average do you spend making a single game? [2009-08-20 10:44:54] Morning! [2009-08-20 10:45:42] @Mat: what are your top5 flash games (no nitrome games please ;) )? [2009-08-20 10:45:43] HardCircle: I think establishing strong partnerships is esential in getting forward in business. We probably would not be where we are now without Miniclip or some other link up being involved. You can't be good at everything right away so it help to team with people who maybe offer what you can't [2009-08-20 10:45:46] If anyone wants to keep in contact with me, i'm a puzzle game artist, add me on msn or email me - danielmartin202@hotmail.com [2009-08-20 10:46:34] dan don't spam the chat, we don't care and we're busy talking to nitrome [2009-08-20 10:47:21] i know sorry [2009-08-20 10:47:32] *Thanks Nitrome for a great chat, and says bye* [2009-08-20 10:47:34] Raitendo: I don't think Nintendo set out to make Mario their mascot it just happened because it was so popular. We prefer to push our brand as a whole and although we have had some games that were much more successful than others we havn't felt any were woth pushing as a mascot......it could happen though eventually [2009-08-20 10:47:35] bye [2009-08-20 10:49:11] how many people work at nitrome? [2009-08-20 10:49:25] meman.... 9 [2009-08-20 10:49:56] thx [2009-08-20 10:50:56] Nitrome_Mat collective manhours spent on a game? [2009-08-20 10:51:10] Khanduras: we spend about 5-6 weeks on a game.....two people 5 days a week, 8 hours a day.....plus a couple of days for the music by a musician [2009-08-20 10:51:20] oh look right there, thanks [2009-08-20 10:51:46] so 400-480 + music [2009-08-20 10:52:18] Nitrome_Mat : do you switch up the teams of two or do thy stay the same? [2009-08-20 10:52:20] TacticalPenguin: I couldn't be bothered to work it out but if thats what adds up thats it [2009-08-20 10:52:41] Nitrome: Music is usually contracted or in house? [2009-08-20 10:52:43] that's what it adds up to i calculate things like that without even realizing im doing it :p [2009-08-20 10:53:20] DiscipleOfFred: we do try to swap about but it can be dificult as teams tend to finish at different times so then it makes sense for the same people to make another together [2009-08-20 10:53:24] @Nitrome_Mat: How much do you spend on music sfx, or could you suggest what a fair price would be for those who are new to outsourcing music/sfx for money. [2009-08-20 10:53:52] tfernando: Music is contracted but every other part of the game is in-house [2009-08-20 10:54:35] TacicalPenguin: Your math's a bit off. :p [2009-08-20 10:54:48] HardCircle_Bret: you are free to contact either of our musicians for a quote....they are both linked on our links page [2009-08-20 10:55:22] @Nitrome_Mat: Thanks, I will definitly look into that. [2009-08-20 10:55:47] Wow, it's been literally years since I last used an IRC client... :) [2009-08-20 10:56:25] Has anyone got any more questions about Mochi Coins......It was actually supposed to be the main focus of the chat I think :) [2009-08-20 10:56:33] Khanduras the math seems on point too me...remember there are two people [2009-08-20 10:56:49] @nitrome@i have heard of something called silverlight..do you plan on writing for that platform? [2009-08-20 10:56:59] @Nitrome_Mat: Is it worth it? [2009-08-20 10:57:11] No we have no plans to use silverlight [2009-08-20 10:57:44] Nitrome_Mat: have you considered doing console games, for example wiiware [2009-08-20 10:57:58] there is really no point in using silverlight when Flash is so much more dominant.......you would be ruling a lot of oppertunities out doing that [2009-08-20 10:58:20] @Nitrome_Mat: In all honest I've been waiting to see how mochicoins panned out for your company before I decided to release a game with coins intact. [2009-08-20 10:58:33] Nitrome_Mat: are you allowed to share how many daily uniques nirtome.com gets on a daily weekly or monthly basis? [2009-08-20 10:59:25] @nitrome@i was thinking of a game where you *reward* players with mochi coins..is that possible? [2009-08-20 10:59:33] Mat, what do you think of using a very simple Mochi coin scheme in a simpler game, so maybe unlock a part of a simple game only..just one item to buy [2009-08-20 10:59:41] BrightWave: Given a five day work week, 5*24=120 x 5 weeks at minimum, which goes to 600. That's 600 hours with one person involved. Two people would bump it to 1200, if two people spent 5 weeks making a game. [2009-08-20 10:59:42] Raitendo: yes we certainly would like to do work for consoles......all of them would be great. [2009-08-20 11:00:01] Nitrome_Mat: Traditionally, you've gone for limited distribution (mainly on your site plus a limited number of site licenses). Do you plan on going for a wider game distribution if you're using MochiCoins? [2009-08-20 11:00:15] Nitrome_Mat: Now that you've had some exp with Mochi Coins, what types of items/upgrades/unlocks do you think are most successful with the micro-transactions model? How would you change TS2 if you could go back and do it again? [2009-08-20 11:00:19] nitrome_mat: do you have any concrete plans? for developing console games [2009-08-20 11:00:22] Mat, don't go in to consoles, you're much better off where you are, believe me. I've worked on them for a looong time :-) [2009-08-20 11:00:37] @Khanduras They do only work 8 hours.day, not 24 [2009-08-20 11:00:50] lol [2009-08-20 11:00:58] <|macco> haha [2009-08-20 11:00:59] BrightWave: it changes month to month but we get about 1 million page views a day on Nitrome......not sure what uniques off the top of my head [2009-08-20 11:01:08] ok [2009-08-20 11:01:21] Pfft. You NEVER just work 8 hours a day. ;p [2009-08-20 11:01:42] True, but I find you do need to sleep and eat [2009-08-20 11:02:04] Nitrome: Any plans to localize to other languages (in particular Chinese or Korean) noting somewhere above that your ARPU dropped when Twinshot hit worldwide distribution? [2009-08-20 11:02:14] guys/..you're getting in the way of nitromes answers [2009-08-20 11:02:17] Khanduras, your math is off [2009-08-20 11:02:22] 40 hour work week 5 days 8 hours [2009-08-20 11:02:23] Khanduras your a slave driver...lol...crack the whip...lol [2009-08-20 11:02:24] 2 people [2009-08-20 11:02:28] 80 hours per week [2009-08-20 11:02:28] *5-6 [2009-08-20 11:02:29] 400-480 [2009-08-20 11:02:42] I will crack that whip. Oh yes, I will. Come work for me. ;p [2009-08-20 11:02:47] Ada: good question.......I think if we had released the extra levels for free a few weeks afterward and concentrated on even more extras that were all split up into individual payments we probably would have made more money in retrospect [2009-08-20 11:02:48] stfu idiots [2009-08-20 11:03:37] any plans to make any more social-ish games like the little mmorpgs you see on facebook? [2009-08-20 11:03:46] oh wait i get it [2009-08-20 11:03:50] it was a joke [2009-08-20 11:03:55] * gaby wishes there was a +m flag on this channel [2009-08-20 11:03:56] because youd make people work 24 hours a day [2009-08-20 11:03:57] right [2009-08-20 11:03:57] i fail [2009-08-20 11:03:59] tfernando: we would consider translation but there is a lot of money involved. [2009-08-20 11:04:22] Nitrome_Mat: what sells more in twin shot: the cheats & treats or level pack? [2009-08-20 11:04:45] im betting cheats and treats [2009-08-20 11:06:18] @nitrome@im guessing its true but has mochi made it possible to do flash games professionally? without the ad revenue ..no profit? [2009-08-20 11:06:38] DiscipleOfFred : they are actually pretty equal even though they are very different in price so I don't think the amount of money is as big a barrier as just convicing them to pay anything. Cheats and Treats has slightly more but the level pack has mad us a lot more money [2009-08-20 11:07:29]